HI from Bedford TK owner :)
 

HI
I recently bought a Bedford 1977 straight 6 7.5 ton horse lorry, I think its a TK except it just says Bedford on the registration docs, so i thought i would join here and say hello.
I live in France - been here about 10 years now, married, 3 children and have various pets inc horses, dogs, pigs and cats.
I don't know alot about mechanics so will no doubt be pestering everyone for help occasionally!

and I am female... my french friends say I am 'kinder' as in kinder egg.... brunette on the outside, but blonde underneath!!

Nice to meet you all and spk in the future :)

Welcome aboard Maz, It's a great site, plenty of laughs. Hope we see some French photos also, if you get the time that is between restoring the old Beddy.

Mike (hilifta)

Ok, here she is (fingers crossed as not very internet savvy)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...thebedford.jpg

ok, so that didn't go as planned, i think i have managed to post a photo in the gallery tho ....

Hi Maz It was me that got 2 points for you joining here ;)

Welcome to the Forum, our Bedford expert will respond very soon that's for sure.

Feel free to join in with comments photos wherever.

Thanks Ian, I am sure someone will be able to help me. My main problem is that i have to really understand the problem myself, before i can explain it in french to a mechanic, as most of the mechanics are not familiar with a Bedford as its not a really popular make over here (unlike in UK where they are everywhere and very popular as horse lorry).

I love my horsebox, she is a beauty, and the french riders always come over to look at her at shows cos they have never seen one before, she had been photographed everywhere, but they always make me laugh cos they always go to the 'wrong' side to get in cos she was originally a UK lorry, they have the 'where is the steering wheel?' look on their faces for a second or two! grins.

It sure looks like a Bedford TK to me.
Here's my old TK,

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/p...irstTruck3.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/p...irstTruck2.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/p...rstTruck3a.jpg

Yes, its the same as yours !!!!

I thought it was a TK but i thought thaat it was weird as on the english log book it just says Bedford and the french have just copied that onto the new one.

Mine is missing the bedford badge on the front bonnet, i would like to get one for her sooner or later. She is lovely, but i still occasionally get a problem popping her into second gear... sometimes i still hit reverse which involves a nassty grinding of the gear box and general swear words from me, cos it inevitably happens when there are people around to watch and hear!

TK's are just a bit temperamental but you'll soon get the hang of it and don't worry what others make of you driving:)

Welcome to Truck and Bus Forum MazTalks.

That's certainly a Bedford TK - probably what used to be called a KB - you should have a plate riveted onto to the wheelarch inside the passenger door which should be stamped with the model designation and chassis number.

It changed sometimes in the 1970s so might read something beginning with the letter E - but I can no longer remember the following letters which define the engine type and gross weight as well as the wheelbase and whether it was supplied with a full cab fitted or just a front cowl for coachbuilding.
You will need this sequence of characters (and the following numbers) when ordering spares.

A very warm welcome to the Truck and Bus Forum, MazTalks. Greetings from the sunny Isle of Anglesey.:)

Thanks for such a warm welcome! I am off to speak to the mechanic today and to find out if he has time to check my brake system soon... and how much it is going to cost ... crosses fingers and hopes its not going to be too much!

ok... mechanics verdict is.... Master cylinder on brakes is leaking and the big black metal unit it is joined to (not sure what that is called in english)... next question... where is the best place for me to order the parts from?
I can check the net myself, which i will do, but its always better if someone can recommend a site...

Thanks in advance if you can help :)

First of all you need to find out whether the master cylinder is a Girling part and/or the servo is a Clayton Dewandre part.

If you had a workshop manual for your model it would give this information and what steps to take to overhaul (ie fit new seals).

You might not be willing to undertake this work yourself, but if you can provide your mechanic with this manual he should be able to follow it (assuming he can understand basic English)

You need to find out what model your vehicle is (see the plate on the passenger-side wheelarch or door pillar) and you will need this information to ensure that parts are correct.
If you have the original UK registration paperwork the information that you will require will be there, too (and maybe in your French registration documentation) then search for a workshop manual including brakes. It will save you time and money in the long run, otherwise you will be guessing that the parts you need are correct.

This might be what you want, although it might be too early for your vehicle:-
Bedford TJ/TK. Service Training manual.TS.508.Steering gear,front axle,brakes.April 1961.130 sides.
From:- http://www.mark.clubaustin.co.uk/commercials.htm

Contact them with your vehicle details and see whether they have the correct manual.

Try these people also (just an enquiry at this stage as you don't know exactly what you need):-
http://www.bedfordgenuineparts.com/C...1DAAD88313.htm

thanks for your reply, I will follow up on those links.
Unfortunately on the english log book the make is bedford, but the model/type variant and version are all blank.

After eventually finding the plate (under passenger seat!) it was almost illegible due to age, its hand written and stamped with dept of Transport. The model looks like EJM and then 2000 or 2060, it's so faded its almost impossible to read! Does this sound like it could be the right information?

You will need more information from your mechanic.

The brakes are actuated by hydraulics - a 'standard' brake master cylinder is 'pushed' by an air piston (contained within the black metal unit).

The two, although physically connected are separate units.

It is possible that both are faulty - but unlikely.

Applying the footbrake sends air from the footvalve to the servo (the black thing) which pushes the hydraulic cylinder (the grey - or rusty - thing with hydraulic reservoirs containing brake fluid) which operates the wheelbrakes just like any car (well, most cars except Rolls Royces and big Citroens).

If the hydraulic master cylinder is 'faulty' then there are seal repair kits that can save you getting a new master cylinder - any mechanic should be able to overhaul this if provided with the parts.

If the air actuator is faulty, then you can get seals to repair this, too.

All this will be explained in the workshop (or training) manual if you can get one. I have one for a military 4x4 MK model which will be similar, though actual spare parts might differ.
It also tells you how to adjust the free travel between the air servo pushrod and the hydraulic master cylinder.

Ask your mechanic if he needs parts for the air servo or for the hydraulic cylinder. If he doesn't know or suggests new assemblies for both (expensive!) then he doesn't know exactly what is wrong.

You might need a second opinion to avoid costing you lots of money without solving your problem.

Are the wheelbrakes adjusted properly? There is an indicator on the air servo (the black unit) that shows how much travel there is in the system and indicates when the wheel brakes need adjusting.

Unfortunately my scanner isn't working so I cannot send you an illustration, but it says "When the red band on the indicator rod is fully exposed then the wheelbrakes need adjusting".

Adjusting the wheelbrakes is simple - the adjuster is turned until the wheel cannot be turned, then the brakes are applied with the air system fully charged, then the adjuster is backed-off until the wheel is free to rotate without binding.

It might be worth doing this before proceeding with any other possibly expensive repairs.

Of course this doesn't confirm whether the linings are contaminated or have been overheated (you need to remove the brake drums to ascertain this, but is your mechanic telling you that the indicator rod is too far out (indicating that adjustment of the wheelbrakes is needed)?

EJM indicates that it is a 330 diesel (the J) M (GVW range) (the E is a general configuration that doesn't mean much - 4x2, an H at the beginning would be 6x2 and a K 6x4).

The JM (with the E) are the important letters. You really need to try and decipher the 2000 / 2060 and any other numbers.

Are there any badges on the front of the cab that say TK750 or TK1020 or something like that? They would indicate the GVW range (which the M sort of covers).

Search for parts for an EJM.

Thanks for that :) The lorry was converted some time ago in uk by somerset coach builders either they have (or someone else has) removed EVERYTHING that was on the outside, she doesn't even have a bedford badge on the bonnet.
Log book info is :
Private HGV, 7490kg gross, 5420cc Heavy oil 2 axle rigid body
the beginning of the vin number is EJM2BCOFW .... the light dawns! maybe the 2000 is actually 2BCO !!! ugh... i am SO blonde!!! There is also a short 7 digit number for the engine

Thanks for your comprehensive reply!

The mechanic says that the air piston bit (the servo) is leaking and he is worried that the membrane inside is going to be perished or will perish eventually(?). He also said the master cylinder was leaking and super old (maybe the original from 1977!)
He said that it would be quicker in man hours to get new ones as then he just needs to stick it on and bleed the system (if i understood him correctly)
He said i could get new seals, but this would involve lots more man hours.

There isnt really anywhere else to take it to here,. we live in rural france and he is the only hgv garage for miles and lots of people here recommended him... so i am a bit stuck with him i guess.

For now i can keep driving it, as long as i keep checking the brake fluid levels, whilst i try to find the parts.

I've just remembered - your vehicle (depending on date of manufacture) might have a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) visible through the windscreen on the top of the 'fascia' (not the instrument binnacle - the sheet metal of the cab structure) which will look like a 'dymotape' strip (though metal). This might provide information (such as the chassis number) that might be missing from the model plate that you found under the seat.

It's a complex number and not easy to decode:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle...rer_Identifier

OK, so now we have more information about the fault (air servo leaking - suspect perished diaphragm, master cylinder leaking - old anyway) you need to start a search for parts for an EJM - either new or reconditioned (or even from a scrapper if 'guaranteed').

I'll see if I can find what you need (on the basis that I will provide links that I can find rather than me actually verifying if the parts are correct!).

I presume that your vehicle is right-hand drive? If not then you might need different parts (or maybe the mounting brackets allow for that) - worth checking with the supplier who should know more than me.

Describe your vehicle as a TK EJM 1977 (?) to provide as much information as you have for the supplier to ensure you get the correct parts.

If you cannot find assemblies, then you might find seal sets are your answer (even with the extra labour cost - the actual work isn't difficult and should be well within the capability of any 'mechanic'). I agree that assemblies removes the possibility of further complications, but I can reproduce the instructions from my MK manual which will explain what is needed to be done. I'll see whether I can get my scanner to work (it's actually the printer bit which isn't printing) or I might buy a new printer (actually cheaper than buying ink cartridges!).

From what I have discovered so far, it seems that the air actuator (servo) might not have a diaphragm, but be a piston type.
Of course this depends on the age of your vehicle and actual model, but '330' TKs are coming up as piston type, and a repair kit is reasonably priced (IMO):-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bedford-TK...item2310bf9064

From:- http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Bedford-TK-...4.l1581&_pgn=2 (shows the early 220 diaphragm repair kit).

Some suppliers of Bedford parts:-

http://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk/contact.html

http://www.bedfordparts.co.uk/contact.shtml

This is a brake master cylinder, but for a heavier model than yours, and I don't know whether it would fit:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bedford-TK...item2313e96950

It says KG/EPR which is heavier than your KB(?)/EJM - Maybe your model is KD? (I wish I could remember the 'new' designations - ie the third letter (M) in your EJM). The third letter (which indicates the allowable maximum weight) is in the sequence from A rising to Z (though the extremes A and Z weren't used IIRC), so a letter M is lower GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) than a letter R (which I know was a KG). Third letter V was a KM (16 tonner), X was 22 tonner (and 24 tonner, too IIRC).

It seems (from the interweb) that the third letter G was a KB, so maybe yours is a KD (I don't think it is a KE or KF though it could be if it was coded with small wheels - which were usually fitted to KB as standard.

I've just found a 'translation' list:-

Third letter:-
F=KA
G=KB=TK570
L=KC=TK750
M=KD=TK860
N=KE=TK1000
R=KG=TK1260
T=KH=TK1470

Which seems to confirm your vehicle as a TK KD/TK860 (your allowable weight (GVW) should be 860Kg?

Sorry if this confuses you, but when they changed from simple KA/KB to EOF/EOG I lost interest!

Here's another translation list:-
http://avi-ltd.co.uk/id18.html
Which might mean that the digits that you thought were 2000 or 2060 could be 2BCO (with the 2 being the wheelbase designator).

I don't remember what the next letter indicated, but the CO meant (IIRC) supplied with a fully-built cab (a letter Z indicated no cab).

It's been 30 years since I was involved in such matters, so it's no surprise that I've forgotten some of it!

I've just read your replies again (it seems we were crossing).

Don't worry whether your vehicle is a KC or a KD as they were closely related and with coded tyres they overlapped (so you could uprate or downrate according to the size of wheels and tyres).

A KC would have a 4 cylinder 220 cu in diesel engine rather than the 6 cylinder 330 cu in diesel - so you have the better option, believe me - the 220 diesel was exactly 2/3rds of the 330 and so performance suffered accordingly!

The important thing is that you now have the official designation (EJM) even though it now seems to be a TK750 rather than a TK860 - this would be done to permit it to be driven without a HGV licence in the UK.

In a way that's good, because horses aren't as heavy as bricks and if your vehicle was originally a TK860 that has been downrated to a TK750 it just means that you have slightly sturdier components (though as I said there was an overlap of parts).

The downrating might explain why the badges were removed, otherwise when it was presented for testing they would treat it as an HGV rather than a 7.5 tonner.

I hope this helps to clarify what might seem to be confusing information.

Wow thanks for all your time an effort, you have found out loads more than i have been able to on the net! So now i will look for an air servo and brake master cylinder for a TK750 and keep my fingers crossed we can find some :)

this is a link to a garage in Kent who does TK parts and spares http://www.bedfordparts.co.uk/contact.shtml
Spoke to a guy called david, who has the repair kit for the servo and a new master cylinder and he is going to send them over for next week!
So thanks all of you for your help and advice :)

Sounds good!

I'll send you the instructions to 'service' the servo.

wow, that would be super :)

Right, before we start (or before your mechanic starts) see:-
http://www.truckandbusforum.com/show...8&postcount=10
and:- http://www.truckandbusforum.com/show...?t=3901&page=2
which covers wheelbrake adjustment (which should be checked first IMO).
Then, if it is decided that the master cylinder and air actuator need replacing/overhauling, here are the instructions which will assist your mechanic:-

The hydraulic tandem master cylinder is mounted together with the air dual-actuator on the outside of the chassis sidemember, immediately behind the cab.
The cylinder contains two spring-loaded pistons, each fitted with rubber seals. Two detachable plastic reservoirs, each containing a filter, are mounted above tip-type recuperating valves. The recuperating valves are self-contained and interchangeable, and are screwed into tapped bosses in the cylinder so that the valve spindles project into the cylinder bore. The valves are held open by the piston flanges when the brakes are off and close under the action of their springs as the pistons move when the brakes are applied.
Two adaptors screwed into tapped bosses in the side of the cylinder retain spring-loaded check valves and provide attachment for the front and rear hydraulic brake pipes.

Removal:-
1 Disconnect the hydraulic pipes from the master cylinder.
2 Remove the nuts securing the master cylinder and actuator to the support and withdraw the master cylinder. Note the number of shims between the attaching faces as they control the clearance between the end of the actuator pushrod and the master cylinder primary piston.

Dismantling:-
1 Unscrew the reservoir caps and drain off the fluid.
2 Remove the reservoir filters using a length of welding wire shaped with a bend at the end.
3 Unscrew the reservoir retaining nuts and with draw the reservoirs, washers and sealing rings.
4 Unscrew the recuperating valves and remove the sealing rings. Do not dismantle the valves unnecessarily. If required, the valves may be dismantled by removing the spring retainers.
5 Remove the piston stop bolt at the base of the cylinder.
6 Remove the adaptors and sealing rings and withdraw the check valves and springs. Remove the front plug and sealing ring.
7 Remove the circlip at the rear of the cylinder and withdraw the pistons and springs. When withdrawing the secondary piston, use a thin feeler blade to assist the rear seal in passing over the the circlip groove.
8 Remove the perforated plate from the front end of the cylinder bore.

Inspection:-
1 Clean all parts with alcohol (methylated spirits).
2 Inspect the recuperating and check valves for damage or corrosion.
3 Examine the cylinder bore and pistons for ridges or scores.
4 All rubber seals should be renewed whenever the cylinder is dismantled.
If the seals show signs of swelling due to mineral oil contamination, the remainder of the brake system should be checked and flushed out with alcohol (methylated spirits).

Reassembly:-
Note the following:-
1 Smear the cylinder bore and all components with clean brake fluid.
2 Pack the rear seal of the primary piston with the approved grease.
3 Install the pistons and piston seals. Use a thin feeler blade to assist the seals in passing over the circlip groove.
4 Use new sealing rings when assembling the checkvalves to the springs.
5 Assemble new sealing rings to the recuperating valves and install the valves whilst holding the pistons depressed. Check that the movement of the pistons actuates both valves.
6 Position the rubber washers on the recuperating valves and the copper washers under the reservoir retaining nuts.

Installation:-
1 Before installing the master cylinder, determine the thickness of shims required between the cylinder and the support. This may be achieved as follows:-
With the actuator located in the support assemble the shims removed and gauge VR2096, as shown in N25. Add or remove sufficient shims until the pushrod is flush with and not more than .005in below the top of the gauge. As a final check the shims should be compressed by securing the gauge with three nuts.
2 Smear the recess in the primary piston with the approved grease.
3 Refill the reservoirs to the indicated level and bleed the brakes.

Illustration of checking gauge VR2096:- http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...n/IMGP8510.jpg

Illustration of the master cylinder:- http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...n/IMGP8512.jpg

(Without the checking gauge VR2096 - which will undoubtedly be the case - the depth of the depression in the master cylinder piston must be calculated such that there is no free play or lost movement when the cylinder is attached to the air actuator, nor must the actuator pushrod cause movement of the master cylinder piston before air is applied - although it might be necessary for trial and error of the number and thickness of the shims until satisfactory operation is accomplished.
It might be advisable to measure the dimensions of the air actuator pushrod and the depression of the removed master cylinder piston to determine how much clearance or preload is required.)

Removal:-
1 Release the air pressure from the system.
2 Remove the airlines from the actuator and the hydraulic pipes from the master cylinder.
3 Remove the four bolts from the cylinder and actuator support and withdraw the assembly.
4 Remove the three nuts and lockwashers and separate the master cylinder and actuator from the support. Note the number of shims between the master cylinder and the support as they control the clearance between the actuator pushrod and the master cylinder primary piston.

Dismantling:-
1 Mark the position of the cylinders in relation to the body.
2 Remove the bolts and separate the cylinders from the body. Remove the gasket.
3 Withdraw the piston assembly from the rear cylinder and remove the lubricator felt.
4 Withdraw the filter from the front cylinder. Remove the friction disc and withdraw the indicator rod.
5 Secure the pushrod assembly in a soft-jawed vice and remove the pushrod locknut. The spring tension can be overcome by hand pressure.
6 Withdraw the pushrod from the piston and body and remove the pushrod thrust washer. Remove the piston lubricator felt.
7 Remove the circlip from the body and withdraw the washers and felt ring. The filter in the body should not be removed unnecessarily.
8 Do not remove the seals or sealing rings unless replacement is necessary.

Inspection:-
1 Wipe the rubber components with a clean, dry cloth and was all other parts. Clean the filters.
2 Examine the sliding surface of the pushrod for scores and the bush in the body for wear. The rod should be a close sliding fit in the bush.
3 Examine the pistons for damage and the sliding surfaces for scores and wear.
4 Check the cylinders for dents or signs of scoring and corrosion. Slight corrosion may be removed with fine emery cloth.
5 Examine all rubber parts for wear, damage and deterioration.

Reassembly:-
1 Smear the seals, sealing rings, pushrod, bush and the sliding surfaces with the approved grease. Soak the felt ring and piston lubricator felts in the approved lubricant.
2 Press the seal into the body with the plain side to the bush. See fig N39. Insert the felt ring, with a washer on each side, into the body and secure with the circlip.
3 Assemble the seals to the pistons with the plain side towards the lubricator felt groove. Locate the sealing ring in the piston bore.
4 Place the thrust washer on the pushrod and position the piston with the boss in contact with the thrust washer. Care should be taken to avoid damaging the sealing ring.
5 Place the body on the pushrod with the air inlet port adjacent to the piston. Care should be taken to avoid damaging the body seal.
6 Position the pushrod return spring on the body and locate the retainer on the spring. Compress the spring using hand pressure and fully tighten the pushrod locknut.
7 Assemble the sealing ring in the groove in the body and the lubricator felts in the piston grooves, ensuring that the ends of the felt do not overlap.
8 Insert the rear piston assembly into the cylinder with the single mounting stud. Care should be taken to avoid damaging the piston seal.
9 Position the cylinder, together with a new gasket on the body and align the marks made when dismantling.
10 Install the indicator rod in the front cylinder and retain with the friction disc.
11 Position the cylinder on the body and align the marks made when dismantling. Insert the bolts and tighten the nuts to the specified torque. (18 lb.ft)
12 Install the filter in the cylinder.
13 Place the blanking disc in the recess in the front cylinder and position the support on the actuator. Install the master cylinder as described under 'Master Cylinder'.

Installation:-
1 Bleed the hydraulic brake system.
Check the airline connections for leakage.

Illustration of the air dual actuator:- http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...n/IMGP8509.jpg

Bleeding the hydraulic brake system:-
1 Charge the air system to operating pressure and adjust the wheelbrakes.
2 Remove the filler caps from the hydraulic master cylinder, and, if necessary, top up the fluid levels.
3 Clean each bleeder screw and attach a length of rubber tube to one of the rear brake bleeder screws. Place the other end of the tube in a glass jar filled with sufficient brake fluid to immerse the end of the tube.
4 Unscrew the bleeder screw two or three turns and employ an assistant to operate the brake pedal until all of the air bubbles cease to appear from the end of the rubber tube.
The fluid level must be maintained above the minimum level indicated on the reservoirs during the bleeding operation.
5 Tighten the bleeder screw, remove the rubber tube and repeat the operation on the remaining brakes.
6 Top up the fluid level to the maximum indicated on the reservors, ensure that the vent hole in the caps is unobstructed and replace the caps.
7 Push the air actuator indicator rod until it contacts the piston.
8 apply heavy pressure to the brake pedal and check that the indicator rod does not emerge to reveal the red band, as this indicates the presence of air, leakage in the system or incorrect brake shoe adjustment.This must be corrected by further bleeding and/or adjustment after examination of the hydraulic system.

The fluid bled from the system must be discarded as it contains air (and must not be used for topping up the reservoirs).

And finally (at least for now):-
Footbrake valve operating test.

1 Disconnect the airlines to the master cylinder actuator at the footbrake valve and connect an air pressure test gauge to each port.
2 Charge the air system to operating pressure.
3 Fully apply the footbrake and check that the pressures registered on the test gauges are approximately the same as registered on the vehicle gauge.
4 Release the brake pedal and check that the pressures fall immediately to zero on the test gauges.
5 Re-charge the system and gradually apply the footbrake. Check that the pressures registered on the test gauges are within 7 lb/sq in at pressures below 25 lb/sq in and within 5 lb/sq in at pressures above 25 lb/sq in. The pressures should increase with brake pedal effort until they are the same as registered on the vehicle gauge.
6 Check the pressures again while slowly releasing the brake pedal.

Leakage test:-
1 Charge the air system to operating pressure.
2 Smear the footvalve exhaust diaphragm and the dust cover with soap solution and check for leakage. Leakage indicates faulty valve carrier sealing rings or inlet valves and/or seats.
3 Fully apply the brake pedal and again check for leakage from the exhaust diaphragm and the dust cover. Leakage in excess of a one inch soap bubble in five seconds indicates faulty exhaust valves and/or seats, or piston sealing rings, or valve carrier rear sealing ring.
4 Smear the valve body and airline connections with soap solution and check for leakage with the brake pedal fully applied.

ok, thanks, hubby is home this weekend, so i will ask him nicely if he can help me to do the wheel brake adjustment :)

Well G-C what can one say, I suggested MazTalk joined T&B (With her problematic Bedford) knowing that you would be able to help, I didn't envisage the chapter and verse that you have delivered. I SHOULD have known BETTER. . . . .What a Super job you have done.

A well deserved Thank you.

That's G-C for you! Always loves researching things untill a solution is found.

Thanks again for all your help. The parts are ordered and hopefully will arrive next week and then the mechanic can get on and fix it !

I hope you are able to print out the instructions (and the illustrations) for him (even though they are in English).
The illustrations should help even though they are not in French.

I will certainly try :)
The pictures should help him !